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Urban Cohort's avatar

Oh Dom; a really good analysis but as a former cadre officer, you do not seem to reference the presence of the ECHR. That means ALL police action has to be proportionate, legal, accountable and necessary. And the police have a duty to facilitate PEACEFUL, not LAWFUL protest.

Legal means there is actual legislation that you can point to banning the act. That’s easy to see.

Accountable means that it is subject to scrutiny by the public or their representatives. In this case the courts, politicians, old uncle Tom Cobbley and all…

Let’s run the arrest of Hizbollah-Ut-Tabrir through the ‘necessary’ lens.

Firstly, whilst you dismiss it lightly above, Jihad had does NOT necessarily mean fighting. A Muslim contact of mine explained years ago that there are many sorts of jihad. The highest form is your struggle against self-will, the lowest is to fight. Let’s see what Michael Mansfield, Imran Khan etc do with that speech in court? They’ll make a good case that there is no prima facie case here…

Link the speech with terrorism? Somehow I doubt that has legs but I may be wrong…

As regards PO… Was the action actually witnessed by police? Was anyone there actually offended? Was it recorded evidentially? Section 5 (or even 4) of the Public Order is a low-level offence. So how proportionate is wading into the crowd - probably batons flying and shields deployed - no doubt causing injury and further assaults on police that will then be subject to forensic dissection at other court cases (as well as by the CPS), where it is decided that the police were not in execution of their duty - against arrests for S3,4,or 5 of the PO Act 86? Even support for terrorism is a relatively minor offence.

How do you justify a riot to arrest for minor offences? How do we know there wasn’t a plan to make arrests subsequently? We are dealing with opinions at the final analysis.

I sincerely believe this is why the much criticised senior police office in Bristol did not step in to stop the vandalism of the statue of Edward Colston. He/she could not justify the potential for violence against the arrest for the relatively minor public order and criminal damage offences.

Now, back in the halcyon days of the 1990s that you hark back to, with ‘just’ PIRA to contend with, there was support in Kilburn for them. Yes, many said they didn’t, but when the Guinness flowed and the old songs were being sung and a collecting tin came round with no label on it, ‘for the boyos back home’ money got put in. I worked that area, then, and occasionally raids were made by SB to disrupt but largely it went unchecked. Plus, there were ‘Troops Out’ marches where some participants wore dark glasses, black roll neck sweaters, khaki slacks and black berets - as near an accepted PIRA ‘uniform’ as existed and frequently seen in Belfast at funerals of killed terrorists. No action was taken, even though it was offending against various statutes, because it was viewed as causing more problems than it would solve, so ‘appeasement’ is nothing new. In fact, it’s probably as old as the MOS itself and policing public order.

It’s easy to feel the CRS have it right - I often do myself when I see them on tv - but ultimately softly softly I believe works best.

Anyway, great analysis and thank you.

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Tristram Hicks's avatar

I was intrigued by the police crowd estimate of ´100,000’. I thought police crowd estimates were not published any more. Has there been a change in policy?

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