On attachment from Hong Kong to the Met in the 1990s, I made the mistake of sitting at the advanced drivers' table in the canteen. "Who are you?" was the terse question I received from a stern-looking Sgt. "Why?" I responded. "Well, this is our table. Unless you're an advanced driver, move on." I smiled, "How about an advanced rickshaw licence from the Hong Kong Police? Does that count?" That defused the situation.
Dom, firstly can I say I am really glad after you posted a few months ago that you were looking to stop these sub stacks that you are back- but fully understood why. I was never a MPS officer although on secondment I worked with many. We had canteens in our Force and I have to say they were really good for a lot of issues, team morale, debriefs etc. I accept there were elements that would allow some poor behaviour but overall this was overshadowed, and like you say many officers were naturally “found out” and dealt with on the team rather than a formal process. Definitely because most good coppers do not like poor ones, so there was some natural justice. And it worked! In the main My last patrol role saw the officers sent out with a tablet and an expectation to not return to the station until the end of the shift. So no sitting in the report rooms writing up jobs, no shared cups of tea etc. I think it isolated the officers a lot more and left them exposed to the sorts of MH issues that we were more able to deal with. And it had meant the teamwork that policing relies on at bigger incidents has eroded. I see and know many excellent officers but feel in so many ways for them that whereas we had 1 arm tied behind our backs they now have both.
Interesting take on current police operations failing more do to management than the copper on the street. I just responded earlier to a Linkedin post by a retired FBI agent touting the effectiveness of a multi-agency drug enforcement task force that he put together in the rural expanse of Nebraska. His immediate FBI supervision was half a state away and even that regional FBI HQ was viewed as the ass end of nowhere and not to be a concern of FBI management. Yet this lowly, middle-of-nowhere, resident agent observed that there was actually a significant drug trafficking problem in this rural oasis. His band of merry task force officers from these small rural agencies made very significant drug cases. I told him in my response to his post that he was able to accomplish this because the FBI management left him alone. I experienced this same experience with agency and my own auto theft task force (ATTF). I had my own budget and no one cared what I and my task force did because drug task forces were the Queens of law enforcement, not something that investigated a mere "property crime." My lowly ATTF actually made money above budget from seizures and fines, and we plowed this back into officer training and equipment. Sending officers to training every year, often to far flung out-of-state locations, that provided exceptional training in auto theft investigation. Consequently, we recovered more expensive and sophisticatedly altered stolen cars than any of the other, larger ATTFs in our state (rather than fighting patrol officers for "joy rider" thefts and rental car non-returns). I also purchased new laptops, then mobile in-car, Wi-Fi-connected mobile data terminals with internet access, new vests, cellular systems, etc., Meanwhile my home agency struggled with its own budget, unable to replace aging equipment (never upgrading to what my ATTF had) and often running out of regular office supplies (and "borrowing" some of these supplies from my ATTF when they ran out). When they asked me if I would like to move to a new assignment I told them that I was fine where I was. And I stayed there until I retired.
Dom, that FBI agent responded to my comment on his Linkedin post _"Nailed it Steve. Being a former cop also helped. I was 150 miles from my immediate Supervisor, who was a Great boss. Once we started arresting "half the town", he never bothered me. Only asked if I needed anything. Always responded, more help! . . . "
Hi. The management failings I describe are... too *much* management. Intrusive micromanaging is one of the things I often discuss. On the other hand, decent line management by experienced leaders is something I welcome too. Of course, an FBI field office in the middle of nowhere will require self-starters. A busy urban police station? It takes all sorts.
As the management class changed, the canteen culture was viewed as the enemy. When Senior Officers came through the ranks they were judged and generally approved to be moved on and as a Skipper/Inspector, they quickly moved into that upper echelon of the canteen as "good eggs".
They were quite happy that they knew they processes that governed the organisation informally and it was used to select for officers that could stand up for themselves and were sociable, it's not a coincidence that these are the basic qualifications for foot patrol, nevermind what you eventually became.
Today, we look at an increasingly fragile, narcissistic and (dare I say it) civilianised management and they know they wouldn't pass muster in the market place of patrolling officers and (more importantly) that more and more of who they want as Police Officers would similarly fail, so out goes the canteen.
The move to open plan offices is part of the "evolution" although it was funny to hear one of the instigators say the quiet part out loud when they gleefully stated that no walls means any "unprofessional conduct" can now be immediately challenged or reported (it's always the latter).
The breadcrumbs around this transition are everywhere in the job, if we can’t get them, despite putting DPS on steroids or calling incompetents ’heroes’ for ‘speaking their truth’, then we’ll bring in civilian-led criticism sessions and call it Reflective Practice.
My man! An ex-copper who uses "elide" correctly and appropriately! Seriously, this is an exceptionally well-written blog, and - therefore - one that communicates exceptionally clearly.
Interesting how the abolition of canteens seems to match the near vertical climb in the deteriorating collective mental health of uniform front line cops. One wonders if Teresa May et al now living off a generous pension scheme and maximising private income would recognise the incalculable harm they've done? I think not because they don't care. Cold cruel vicious ideological fanatics who deliberately attacked those unable to resist or defend themselves. No wonder folks are Turing to Reform..
An accurate description of the police canteen, it was similar in forces outside of the ‘Met’.
I guess, as a carrot (not heard that one before) that the canteen was similar to the police club/bar? Another den of iniquity with the added factor of alcohol! Maybe a future topic Dom?
Spot on as usual. Never having had a university education for economic reason, or spotless parents, when the opportunity arose for a partially paid for degree course that I could offset with credits from prior learning(PS exam, CIID course, +++), and about something I knew about, I jumped at the chance to take the Portsmouth University Policing and Police Studies BSc Degree. And boy did I find out what academia thinks of 'canteen culture'! Whole books have been written about it by people who haven't a clue, have interviewed police officers who have clearly been having the researcher over, or who have an axe to grind. I even used the subject myself in an essay, to give some balance to the debate.
I can't imagine being a uniformed officer without a canteen to wind down in, and order a Met999 breakfast at least once a week! And where does the card school convene? The best way to meld with the more experienced bods, for a probationer, was willingness to make up a card school at hearts, or trumps, and play to a reasonable standard. I think the reason that there was no "drivers' table" at Heathrow, where I was first posted,, was that it was a mix of former BAAC officers, drafted in experienced officers, most of whom were at least Van drivers, and loads of probationers, most of whom got driving courses during their probation, because of the peculiarities of the ground. So at 'refs', everyone on that time would form a card school. Anyone who didn't was viewed with suspicion! However, this apparently more egalitarian approach held traps for the unwary prob! I remember getting some serious bollockings from Area Car drivers during said card games for being too cheeky. However, these could be ameliorated by being a good operator if lucky enough to get the chance on the Area Car, and show yourself to be willing, keen, and a good witness. And any academic snootiness would soon be dispelled by seeing the reaction by dining officers if an 'Urgent assistance' or 'suspects on' call came over the radio, steaming cups of tea and half eaten plates of food giving the room a feel of the Marie Celeste! It was also a place where the two tribes, lids and tecs, could drink at the same waterhole with danger!
The canteens at CIB2 (Tintagel House), and CIB3 (Jubilee House) were different, as was the Scotland Yard canteen when I was at the NTFIU, but on visits to stations right up to retirement in 2007, they seemed to be the same as they ever were. The loss of canteens is awful. The loss of police stations, like police sport, is a fucking tragedy.
Diamond stuff. Some of my happiest memories are of Bristol canteens (and bars) as well as those visited elsewhere on driving courses and secondments to the Home Office/Met. A large part of camaraderie was lost when they were abolished. It would be like making sports teams gather and change on the pitch. No wonder there are mental health problems in the job now with so many spotlights on Bobbies and nowhere to relax and chew the fat.
Met 999’s and Thursday LT curries. They would always keep it warm for you if you had to tip out. However I don’t think I ever saw a Canteen clear for a shout once 12 hour shift pattern was introduced. Regularly escorted the Canteen Manager to the Bank. Enough said.
Superb. Love the observations on visits by Squads. Reminds me of a time in the early '80s when half a dozen long haired, unshaved Squad-types arrived unannounced and sat in a huddle in a corner of the canteen. Most of us wisely ignored them, save for one young and fresh female officer who decided it would be a good idea to go over and ask 'What are you here for?'. After a moment's silence, one looked up and said 'How long have you got in the job?'. 'Six months' she replied. He glared, muttered 'It shows'. and turned away again. Cue a red face and hasty retreat.
Re KABA: “The Police are the public, and the public are the Police.” If an Old Bailey jury takes 16 minutes to find someone not guilty, that’s more than good enough for me. I’ve seen enough people killed or maimed by vehicles to know they’re very deadly weapons, as has everyone who follows you Dom. The IOPC needs constant reminding the ‘PC’ doesn’t mean persecuting coppers.
Couzens is a difficult one. I’d rather he suffers, truly suffers, every day of his whole life tariff. Maybe he should have gender reassignment surgery? I’m sure his wing mates would be very happy to see him in the showers?
On attachment from Hong Kong to the Met in the 1990s, I made the mistake of sitting at the advanced drivers' table in the canteen. "Who are you?" was the terse question I received from a stern-looking Sgt. "Why?" I responded. "Well, this is our table. Unless you're an advanced driver, move on." I smiled, "How about an advanced rickshaw licence from the Hong Kong Police? Does that count?" That defused the situation.
Stoop making me laugh so much you twat! Hope all well mate!
I am barely alive but the sun is shining and I have beer.
Likewise!
Dom, firstly can I say I am really glad after you posted a few months ago that you were looking to stop these sub stacks that you are back- but fully understood why. I was never a MPS officer although on secondment I worked with many. We had canteens in our Force and I have to say they were really good for a lot of issues, team morale, debriefs etc. I accept there were elements that would allow some poor behaviour but overall this was overshadowed, and like you say many officers were naturally “found out” and dealt with on the team rather than a formal process. Definitely because most good coppers do not like poor ones, so there was some natural justice. And it worked! In the main My last patrol role saw the officers sent out with a tablet and an expectation to not return to the station until the end of the shift. So no sitting in the report rooms writing up jobs, no shared cups of tea etc. I think it isolated the officers a lot more and left them exposed to the sorts of MH issues that we were more able to deal with. And it had meant the teamwork that policing relies on at bigger incidents has eroded. I see and know many excellent officers but feel in so many ways for them that whereas we had 1 arm tied behind our backs they now have both.
Interesting take on current police operations failing more do to management than the copper on the street. I just responded earlier to a Linkedin post by a retired FBI agent touting the effectiveness of a multi-agency drug enforcement task force that he put together in the rural expanse of Nebraska. His immediate FBI supervision was half a state away and even that regional FBI HQ was viewed as the ass end of nowhere and not to be a concern of FBI management. Yet this lowly, middle-of-nowhere, resident agent observed that there was actually a significant drug trafficking problem in this rural oasis. His band of merry task force officers from these small rural agencies made very significant drug cases. I told him in my response to his post that he was able to accomplish this because the FBI management left him alone. I experienced this same experience with agency and my own auto theft task force (ATTF). I had my own budget and no one cared what I and my task force did because drug task forces were the Queens of law enforcement, not something that investigated a mere "property crime." My lowly ATTF actually made money above budget from seizures and fines, and we plowed this back into officer training and equipment. Sending officers to training every year, often to far flung out-of-state locations, that provided exceptional training in auto theft investigation. Consequently, we recovered more expensive and sophisticatedly altered stolen cars than any of the other, larger ATTFs in our state (rather than fighting patrol officers for "joy rider" thefts and rental car non-returns). I also purchased new laptops, then mobile in-car, Wi-Fi-connected mobile data terminals with internet access, new vests, cellular systems, etc., Meanwhile my home agency struggled with its own budget, unable to replace aging equipment (never upgrading to what my ATTF had) and often running out of regular office supplies (and "borrowing" some of these supplies from my ATTF when they ran out). When they asked me if I would like to move to a new assignment I told them that I was fine where I was. And I stayed there until I retired.
Dom, that FBI agent responded to my comment on his Linkedin post _"Nailed it Steve. Being a former cop also helped. I was 150 miles from my immediate Supervisor, who was a Great boss. Once we started arresting "half the town", he never bothered me. Only asked if I needed anything. Always responded, more help! . . . "
Hi. The management failings I describe are... too *much* management. Intrusive micromanaging is one of the things I often discuss. On the other hand, decent line management by experienced leaders is something I welcome too. Of course, an FBI field office in the middle of nowhere will require self-starters. A busy urban police station? It takes all sorts.
The image created with KKK brunch filmed by Leni Riefenstahl is absolutely priceless as well as hilarious 😆
As the management class changed, the canteen culture was viewed as the enemy. When Senior Officers came through the ranks they were judged and generally approved to be moved on and as a Skipper/Inspector, they quickly moved into that upper echelon of the canteen as "good eggs".
They were quite happy that they knew they processes that governed the organisation informally and it was used to select for officers that could stand up for themselves and were sociable, it's not a coincidence that these are the basic qualifications for foot patrol, nevermind what you eventually became.
Today, we look at an increasingly fragile, narcissistic and (dare I say it) civilianised management and they know they wouldn't pass muster in the market place of patrolling officers and (more importantly) that more and more of who they want as Police Officers would similarly fail, so out goes the canteen.
The move to open plan offices is part of the "evolution" although it was funny to hear one of the instigators say the quiet part out loud when they gleefully stated that no walls means any "unprofessional conduct" can now be immediately challenged or reported (it's always the latter).
Quite the little Maoist revolution.
I wish I could like this comment twice.
The breadcrumbs around this transition are everywhere in the job, if we can’t get them, despite putting DPS on steroids or calling incompetents ’heroes’ for ‘speaking their truth’, then we’ll bring in civilian-led criticism sessions and call it Reflective Practice.
My man! An ex-copper who uses "elide" correctly and appropriately! Seriously, this is an exceptionally well-written blog, and - therefore - one that communicates exceptionally clearly.
Thanks!
Interesting how the abolition of canteens seems to match the near vertical climb in the deteriorating collective mental health of uniform front line cops. One wonders if Teresa May et al now living off a generous pension scheme and maximising private income would recognise the incalculable harm they've done? I think not because they don't care. Cold cruel vicious ideological fanatics who deliberately attacked those unable to resist or defend themselves. No wonder folks are Turing to Reform..
Reform?
More of the same. They hate the public sector. Free market gadflies and disillusioned Tories.
An accurate description of the police canteen, it was similar in forces outside of the ‘Met’.
I guess, as a carrot (not heard that one before) that the canteen was similar to the police club/bar? Another den of iniquity with the added factor of alcohol! Maybe a future topic Dom?
For spotless, read 'potless'! Bloody autocorrect 😂
Spot on as usual. Never having had a university education for economic reason, or spotless parents, when the opportunity arose for a partially paid for degree course that I could offset with credits from prior learning(PS exam, CIID course, +++), and about something I knew about, I jumped at the chance to take the Portsmouth University Policing and Police Studies BSc Degree. And boy did I find out what academia thinks of 'canteen culture'! Whole books have been written about it by people who haven't a clue, have interviewed police officers who have clearly been having the researcher over, or who have an axe to grind. I even used the subject myself in an essay, to give some balance to the debate.
I can't imagine being a uniformed officer without a canteen to wind down in, and order a Met999 breakfast at least once a week! And where does the card school convene? The best way to meld with the more experienced bods, for a probationer, was willingness to make up a card school at hearts, or trumps, and play to a reasonable standard. I think the reason that there was no "drivers' table" at Heathrow, where I was first posted,, was that it was a mix of former BAAC officers, drafted in experienced officers, most of whom were at least Van drivers, and loads of probationers, most of whom got driving courses during their probation, because of the peculiarities of the ground. So at 'refs', everyone on that time would form a card school. Anyone who didn't was viewed with suspicion! However, this apparently more egalitarian approach held traps for the unwary prob! I remember getting some serious bollockings from Area Car drivers during said card games for being too cheeky. However, these could be ameliorated by being a good operator if lucky enough to get the chance on the Area Car, and show yourself to be willing, keen, and a good witness. And any academic snootiness would soon be dispelled by seeing the reaction by dining officers if an 'Urgent assistance' or 'suspects on' call came over the radio, steaming cups of tea and half eaten plates of food giving the room a feel of the Marie Celeste! It was also a place where the two tribes, lids and tecs, could drink at the same waterhole with danger!
The canteens at CIB2 (Tintagel House), and CIB3 (Jubilee House) were different, as was the Scotland Yard canteen when I was at the NTFIU, but on visits to stations right up to retirement in 2007, they seemed to be the same as they ever were. The loss of canteens is awful. The loss of police stations, like police sport, is a fucking tragedy.
Diamond stuff. Some of my happiest memories are of Bristol canteens (and bars) as well as those visited elsewhere on driving courses and secondments to the Home Office/Met. A large part of camaraderie was lost when they were abolished. It would be like making sports teams gather and change on the pitch. No wonder there are mental health problems in the job now with so many spotlights on Bobbies and nowhere to relax and chew the fat.
Met 999’s and Thursday LT curries. They would always keep it warm for you if you had to tip out. However I don’t think I ever saw a Canteen clear for a shout once 12 hour shift pattern was introduced. Regularly escorted the Canteen Manager to the Bank. Enough said.
Superb. Love the observations on visits by Squads. Reminds me of a time in the early '80s when half a dozen long haired, unshaved Squad-types arrived unannounced and sat in a huddle in a corner of the canteen. Most of us wisely ignored them, save for one young and fresh female officer who decided it would be a good idea to go over and ask 'What are you here for?'. After a moment's silence, one looked up and said 'How long have you got in the job?'. 'Six months' she replied. He glared, muttered 'It shows'. and turned away again. Cue a red face and hasty retreat.
Spot on as ever. Informal disciplinary hearings, jokes, informal debriefing, crap tea, crappier coffee and bonding.
Everyone and I mean everyone got the piss ripped out of them. Made you think & helped with developing thinking on your feet (or usually arse).
Then there were canteens that had cooking facilities for the team Sunday ET breakfast. Great times & wouldn’t change it for the world.
Best canteen for the Met 999 was hands down Keston Dog School. Homemade sautéd potatoes. Or Croydon nick’s curry night wasn’t bad.
Or the leaving present a PC got for his skipper from the old Bromley nick’ senior officer dining room… priceless.
I have done the Croydon nick curry run!
Aggies curry every Thursday @ ZD.
Even had the carrots arranging their visits to take advantage.
Happy days.
Re KABA: “The Police are the public, and the public are the Police.” If an Old Bailey jury takes 16 minutes to find someone not guilty, that’s more than good enough for me. I’ve seen enough people killed or maimed by vehicles to know they’re very deadly weapons, as has everyone who follows you Dom. The IOPC needs constant reminding the ‘PC’ doesn’t mean persecuting coppers.
Couzens is a difficult one. I’d rather he suffers, truly suffers, every day of his whole life tariff. Maybe he should have gender reassignment surgery? I’m sure his wing mates would be very happy to see him in the showers?